The Juncture Talks to Ronnie Riley
Author Ronnie Riley on showing queer and trans kids that hope persists
Middle-grade author Ronnie Riley is many things. In their own words, they are “fat, queer, trans, nonbinary, demisexual, lesbian, neurodivergent, disabled, Canadian”, though I would like to add to that list, “talented, radiant, and one of few reasons I have to believe that the kids are gonna be alright at a time when many people are working very hard to make sure that the kids ain’t gonna be alright”.
Ronnie writes queer contemporary middle-grade fiction, centering young trans and non-binary protagonists in realistic narratives. They live in Toronto with their partner, Juliana, who I met through friends and eventually featured in my 2023 documentary, A Queer’s Guide to Spiritual Living. At the time, Juliana and Ronnie were living together in Kingston, and for several weekends in November the couple graciously welcomed myself, my co-creator, and our tiny crew into their home and into their lives. Pro tip: if you want to make friends with someone fast, set up a camera in their living room and spend eight hours a day swapping stories about the epic highs and lows of queer coming-of-age.
Ronnie is one of the warmest people I’ve ever had the good fortune of knowing, a warmth I believe really comes through in their writing.
- Billy
Billy: Hi Ronnie! Thanks for taking the time to chat. You and I know each other well, but for the folks reading this could you please describe yourself and what you do?
Ronnie Riley: Always happy to chat!
I’m an author who is trying to make the world a better, more educated, and kinder place one book at a time. I’ve published two middle grade books with Scholastic – Jude Saves the World and Asking for a Friend. I’m currently in the process of writing my third book for Scholastic, Look Pretty.
Jude Saves the World is about a sensitive and open-hearted nonbinary kid who ropes two of their best friends into creating the first Diversity Club in their community and Asking for a Friend is about an anxious kid who’s lied to their mom about having a bunch of friends and now has to make real friends fast before their thirteenth birthday party. Would you say those are accurate descriptions?
Yes. A-plus.
Ha, thank you. I imagine part of what motivates you to write for this audience is to create the books that you wish you could have read growing up. While you didn’t have access to trans fiction in middle school, what were some of the books that you read as a pre-teen that left an impression on you?
I’ve been asked this question a few times and my answers always vary because I’ll remember another book or series that shaped me. One author that always left an impression on me was Tamora Pierce; her characters were always so strong and fierce. They tended to know exactly who they were, while still learning and growing.
Ah, I never read her. My parents were very restrictive of what I could read at that age. They’re evangelicals, as you know. I definitely wouldn’t have had access to your books if they existed when I was younger. Have your books faced any backlash? Have they been banned or pulled from libraries?
Yeah. Jude Saves the World was shadow-banned by a Catholic school board in Ontario with a few other queer books.
What does shadow-banned mean?
Basically, the books were separated from the others and kids would have to request the books from their teacher, who would teach them Catholic beliefs before they were allowed to read it.
Jeez!
Yeah. It was wild. I only found out because someone tweeted at me based on a post on Reddit and then it snowballed into a whole thing.
Thanks to the support of publishers and other authors, it was overturned and the kids in the school board have free access to them now. I’ve heard rumours of it being banned in the US, but I haven’t seen any concrete proof.
It’s anyone’s guess what they’re up to down there. What about on the flipside, have you had any events where you’ve gotten to meet the kids you're sharing these stories with face-to-face?
Jude Saves the World was nominated for the Silver Birch Fiction Award by the Forest of Reading Program. I had the opportunity to do a Q&A at the festival and interact with thousands of kids who had read and loved my book. So many kids came up to me, thanked me for writing this story, asked me thoughtful questions, and even shared their own queer journeys with me.
That’s really so sweet. I imagine it’s meaningful for them to get to share their stories with someone who writes characters that they’ve felt seen by. I, personally, find both of your protagonists very easy to relate to. I read Jude Saves The World while recovering from top surgery, and I read Asking For a Friend over the summer. I found myself kind of nervous as I read to be, in some ways, reliving my genderqueer childhood, though this time through the eyes of someone who was out and happy. It was a very vulnerable experience to allow myself to imagine a childhood I didn’t get to have.
What feelings come up for you as the author as you imagine trans childhoods, in reference to your own childhood?
What a fabulous question! I always say that Jude Saves the World is a gift I gave myself. Being able to imagine a happy, educated, and out trans childhood has been incredibly rewarding and healing, while also being difficult and heartbreaking at the same time. I grieve for the moments of clarity I never had in clouds of confusion, while also being grateful that I have the opportunity to give clarity to kids – and adults – that I never had. If my books help one kid not have the same feelings of confusion, anger, and hurt that I experienced growing up feeling out of place in my body, in the world, then it’s worth it.
Asking for a Friend was similar in that I explored more of my anxiety disorders. I unpacked a lot of confusing feelings I had around that age that had nothing to do with my gender.
I guess, in that way, writing has become a form of therapy for myself.
And how’s it been with Look Pretty?
Look Pretty is a story that is closer and more personal to me because the main character does not know they are nonbinary at the beginning of the book. It’s more of a coming out story than I was expecting. So with Jude’s and Eden’s stories I found myself working through the possibilities of a happy and out childhood, this time around I’m trying to handle a lot of emotions and experiences that I did have as a kid.
Right, yeah that’s definitely a different tone and I’m sure a different journey for you as a writer than your past two books. With Jude and Eden, specifically, how do you find the right balance between bringing the character’s transness to the foreground and making it a part of the narrative, and letting it take a back seat to the main plot of the book?
I wanted both stories to be about nonbinary and queer kids but not revolve around how they discovered they were trans. My goal was to tell their story as authentically as I could. But also, since being trans is such an important part of what makes the character who they are, I try my best to honour their gender and their unique view of the world in the same way my own experiences with being nonbinary has formed how I move through life.
With Jude Saves the World, Jude wants to create a safe space for people who are marginalized, and in Asking for a Friend, Eden simply wants to make friends and to feel safe. Their gender and transness are both important in the context of their motivations and goals, but at the end of the day, both are stories about kids wanting to feel safe in an unsafe world.
It seems to me like you’ve intentionally avoided some tired cichés in your writing so far when it comes to trans stories. Especially around misgendering and stuff like that.
Yeah, totally. We never learn their dead name, or their birth name, whatever you want to call it, and they are never misgendered on the page, because none of that is important to who they are at this moment in time, where the story begins.
Sorry if this is kind of a depressing change in topic, but I’m curious to know how it feels to write optimistic stories about trans childhoods at a moment in time when trans children are so visibly under attack in our country?
I’m thinking about the legislation in NB, SK, and AB, and of that kid from Saskatchewan, Zipp Neufeld, who just spoke in front of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women as part of their study on hate-motivated violence against queer people. They’re a pre-teen, I think, in the target audience for your books probably.
What hope do you have about the impact of your books at a time like this?
Writing stories about trans childhoods that are filled with hope has become incredibly important to me. I want to show trans kids, and queer kids in general, that there is hope even when things are difficult.
The impact I hope my books make is showing queer and trans kids that hope persists, that they’ll find their people – their chosen family, their community – and their existence matters. And for those who are not queer and trans, I hope to help educate them more and inspire them to be a better ally.
Okay let’s bring it back to something light. What inspires you?
My wife, friends, and family inspire me the most.
Shoutout to your wife. One of my favourite people.
My wife is a fierce, loyal, protective, and beautiful person. She’s the answer to every shooting star wish I’ve ever made. She always says, “once we know better, we do better” and that’s become my life motto.
Really, all my friends are incredible people, all beautiful and authentically themselves. They always allow me space to feel safe enough to be authentically myself too. And my family has shown me time and time again that no matter your age, you can always learn. You can always grow. You can always show up when it matters.
You’re literally such an inspiration. Anyway, speaking of showing up when it matters, where, how, and when can readers show up to grab copies of Look Pretty in the near future?
We don’t have a release date yet, but once I do, it’ll be announced on Instagram. I’m @mxronnieriley.